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Question to Agilitynet

Postby Simon Chandler on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 9:44 am

I was just wondering why Agilitynet having done a survey for the 4th height debate didnt do the same when the decision from the KC to stop spouses etc from Judging each other came up , and if they did and i missed it were the results published. Was it because it was KC driven ???? or was it because it was a done deal.

Just wondering !!!!
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Lorna Goodban on Fri 07 Dec, 2012 12:18 am

I did the poll on here. We all knew it was a done deal anyway and bringing agility in line with other disciplines - no I did not agree with it being introduced and I still do not agree with it and it makes life difficult as a show sec and I know of some very good judges who have given up judging which is a shame :yes:

http://agilityforum.agilityaddicts.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18272

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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Tim Dyer on Fri 07 Dec, 2012 11:55 pm

What is the rule? Does the spouse have to sit out all day or just the class the OH is judging?
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Lorna Goodban on Sat 08 Dec, 2012 12:36 am

Tim Dyer wrote:What is the rule? Does the spouse have to sit out all day or just the class the OH is judging?


This was the wording when it was being changed:-

Judging of Spouses and Close Relatives in Activity Disciplines

The Kennel Club recently reviewed the Regulations concerning the judging of dogs handled by a judge’s spouse or close relative at Agility and Obedience shows, Heelwork to Music competitions and Working Trials.

Whilst the Committee accepts absolutely that in the majority, if not all cases, judges and competitors behave in a fair and honest manner and is not doubting the integrity of judges; it is concerned with the perception of unfairness and bias which may arise when judges have to judge a dog entered under them handled by their spouse or by a close relative.

Therefore, with effect from 1st January 2012, the following new regulation will be added to G.36.a, H.27.a, I.13.a and L.23.a. to allow for any awards given by a judge to a dog handled by their spouse or immediate family or if the dog is resident at the judge’s address to be disqualified.

TO:

A dog may be disqualified by the General Committee from any award whether an objection has been lodged or not, if proved amongst other things to have been;

“Handled by the scheduled judge’s spouse, immediate family or is resident at the same address as the scheduled judge. This shall not apply to a judge appointed in an emergency.”


So yes the dog can compete just not in classes judged by the connected person

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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Tim Dyer on Sat 08 Dec, 2012 1:04 pm

Here the spouse can not enter the show at all
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Lorna Goodban on Sat 08 Dec, 2012 1:09 pm

Tim Dyer wrote:Here the spouse can not enter the show at all


Thankfully that is not the same :lol: It does make smaller shows harder though - our indoor show is 3 rings with a morning and afternoon judge and nearly all higher grades so if the people the person cannot judge (other half if living together and close relatives and anyone living in the same house (even the lodger :lol: ) or dogs living in the same house) are in the higher grades that almost rules them out without someone having to miss runs :hissyfit: which is a shame :yes: It is easier for something like the KC Festival 16+ rings where a ring may contain only 2 large classes that cover the 7 grades.

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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Pam Ellwood on Sun 09 Dec, 2012 12:23 pm

Tim Dyer wrote:Here the spouse can not enter the show at all


What is the reasoning behind that?
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Deborah Yuill on Sun 09 Dec, 2012 12:57 pm

I can't imagine a sillier or more insulting rule than this.
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Tim Dyer on Sun 09 Dec, 2012 1:18 pm

The rule is a carry over from the breed ring. AKC is big into having its rules spread across all venues so there is no crabbing as to why one group gets one set of rules and another gets different ones. Keeps the complaining down (somewhat) when everyone is playing by the same rules although you will still get those who think it is their God given right to do what ever they want and God forbid that "I" or "me" or "my" get inconvenienced in anyway.
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Pam Ellwood on Sun 09 Dec, 2012 3:23 pm

Tim Dyer wrote:The rule is a carry over from the breed ring. AKC is big into having its rules spread across all venues so there is no crabbing as to why one group gets one set of rules and another gets different ones. Keeps the complaining down (somewhat) when everyone is playing by the same rules although you will still get those who think it is their God given right to do what ever they want and God forbid that "I" or "me" or "my" get inconvenienced in anyway.


That was the reason for lumbering us with the rule we have but it caused a lot more moaning rather than less.

Actually we have a couple of judging pairs at our show who will do half a day each in the same ring. They both lose a day's competition but they gain someone to keep an eye on the dogs and more time lo chill out and socialise. They only miss 1 out of 6 days competition just as they would if they judged all day.

I can see why a close eye needs to be kept on what is going on in the nepotistic breed world where judging is subjective in practice rather than objective as it is in agility. The number of times it may not be in agility aren't worth a sledgehammer rule like this.

I was wondering why a spouse couldn't enter the show at all though. What advantage could theoretically be gained if they weren't to be judged by their OH in anything?
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Tim Dyer on Sun 09 Dec, 2012 5:35 pm

Pam Ellwood wrote: What advantage could theoretically be gained if they weren't to be judged by their OH in anything?


The key word there is "theoretically". In theory it could happen that a judge "not see" the pole come down thus eliminating the handler/spouse and dog or not think that his wife's sheltie spinning 12 times in front of a jump is a refusal. There are lots of things AKC does based on theory (IMO). In theory, a pig could fly out of my a$$ in the middle of my run and in the unlikely event that it happened, I am sure there is already a ruling that would cover that (soiling the ring or something). :cheeky:

I try to keep an open mind about all the regulations we have in AKC. I remind myself that I am not a murderer and more than likely never will be (although I was really close at the grocery store a little while ago) yet I have to live with the rule that murder is illegal and that rule was put into place based on the actions of a small segment of society. It does not however, stop me from thinking "wow, that is really stupid"
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Pam Ellwood on Sun 09 Dec, 2012 5:43 pm

Tim Dyer wrote:
Pam Ellwood wrote: What advantage could theoretically be gained if they weren't to be judged by their OH in anything?


The key word there is "theoretically". In theory it could happen that a judge "not see" the pole come down thus eliminating the handler/spouse and dog or not think that his wife's sheltie spinning 12 times in front of a jump is a refusal.


I meant that if they never came together in the same ring what difference would it make if the spouse entered the show to be judged by someone else? Or in practice is that not often possible with your set up?

Amusing reply though as usual. :D
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Tim Dyer on Sun 09 Dec, 2012 6:15 pm

Pam Ellwood wrote: I meant that if they never came together in the same ring what difference would it make if the spouse entered the show to be judged by someone else? Or in practice is that not often possible with your set up?


The way we set things up and the fact that judges tend to judge all levels of a class for the whole day (we usually have one ring dedicated for jumpers and on for agility) a spouse is likely to come under their OH. Smaller shows will have the same judge do all the classes. Does it really make a difference in the grand scheme of life? Probably not but "thems the rules" and no one really seems to say anything about it.

It might be worth pointing out that at "my" show I almost always select judges from out of the region so highly doubtful that any spouse is going to miss a day of running at "my" show and if I can find a husband and wife who both judge, I will hire them and force them to sleep together saving me money on hotel rooms :devil:
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Pam Ellwood on Sun 09 Dec, 2012 6:54 pm

Tim Dyer wrote:It might be worth pointing out that at "my" show I almost always select judges from out of the region so highly doubtful that any spouse is going to miss a day of running at "my" show


Living in such a small country even "out of the region" is still likely to be within travelling distance for a competing partner or family member. In fact it can be hard to get judges for a one day show if there isn't the incentive that partners/family can compete.
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Re: Question to Agilitynet

Postby Tim Dyer on Sun 09 Dec, 2012 7:23 pm

Pam Ellwood wrote: Living in such a small country even "out of the region" is still likely to be within travelling distance.....


The state of Illinois in which I live, is roughly the size of England .If you trust Google information, Illinois is 390 miles long by 210 wide, England 360 miles long by 270 wide (crap weather here today so I have time on my hands). Illinois has a grand total of 14 approved AKC agility judges living in the entire state.
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