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4th height again!

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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Jules Vickerman on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 3:59 pm

That's just such a lovely post Fiona, just sums it all up :flowers:
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 4:04 pm

Yes..Fiona....now all of that makes a lot. lot, LOT of sense.... :yes: :flowers:


If we took the arguments being put forward against a Standard height to their logical end, we would abolish Small and Medium again ... after all if a new Standard height makes the shows impossible to run, it follows that getting rid of Small and/or Medium will make them so much easier, won't it.

..ummm...yes....that is exactly how it seems.... it really does... baffling... really baffling...

...but I'd assume it's the same folk who were against lowering the 30" height and against bringing in the S&M who are the ones who are against the Standard height...
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Pam Ellwood on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 4:33 pm

Fiona Hulse wrote:If we took the arguments being put forward against a Standard height to their logical end, we would abolish Small and Medium again


And if we took the "Agility for All" argument to it's logical conclusion we'd be doing NADAC style "agility" as pointed out by Tim.

As I said - most Smalls and Mediums with their wide range of shapes and sizes really couldn't cope with the 30in jumps we had in the old days. That's a far cry from the situation we have now where the majority of shorter Large dogs can jump 26in, whatever their owners think.
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Brenda Tenten on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 4:38 pm

Jan Stubbs wrote:
...but I'd assume it's the same folk who were against lowering the 30" height and against bringing in the S&M who are the ones who are against the Standard height...

Which shows that it is never wise to make assumptions about people. :paw:
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Mary McKie on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 4:39 pm

Jules Vickerman wrote:That's just such a lovely post Fiona, just sums it all up :flowers:


:agree:
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 4:41 pm

Brenda Tenten wrote:
Jan Stubbs wrote:
...but I'd assume it's the same folk who were against lowering the 30" height and against bringing in the S&M who are the ones who are against the Standard height...

Which shows that it is never wise to make assumptions about people. :paw:

But why would a person be for these but against something for this group of dogs???
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Brenda Tenten on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 4:45 pm

Jan Stubbs wrote:
Brenda Tenten wrote:
Jan Stubbs wrote:
...but I'd assume it's the same folk who were against lowering the 30" height and against bringing in the S&M who are the ones who are against the Standard height...

Which shows that it is never wise to make assumptions about people. :paw:

But why would a person be for these but against something for this group of dogs???

Because they have different reasons for supporting some and not others I would suppose?
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 4:52 pm

I do have to admit I really honestly don't understand why... not necessarily a Standard height but some way to adapt something for these dogs -

but fair enough if so.... :flowers:


ummm...from reading the pack it looks like the standard height is the only option available to consider cos everything else has been looked at and thrown out...
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Jo Sermon on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 5:18 pm

Jan Stubbs wrote:
...but I'd assume it's the same folk who were against lowering the 30" height and against bringing in the S&M who are the ones who are against the Standard height...


I don't think I've spoken to anyone who is against it as such - that's quite an assumption. It is just that people see a lot of problems with the suggestion as it stands. I don't want my dog to jump any lower, he has no sense of self preservation and would likely break his neck! However that doesn't mean I don't want other people to jump their dogs at whatever height they want to, but you need to look at agility overall, not just the loudest people who demand change. Change itself isn't bad, but change that will cause all sorts of problems later is. We don't need to be standing around in a few years time bemoaning the fact that we don't get graded classes any more, or maybe only get one run per dog, or at that point have segregated shows, with small and medium in one place, standard in another and large somewhere else entirely :) I can well remember bringing out a young dog into Intermediate, competing against the country's best on courses designed to test experienced dogs. Novice Agility was scheduled 3 times that year in the shows that I went to and it had more than 1000 dogs in it each time.

I don't remember anyone being against the introduction of small - in fact I remember volunteering to staff a ring so the classes could be scheduled. I don't remember opposition to midi either apart from the usual worry that the classes wouldn't be big enough. I think the average agility person is happy to go along with most suggestions, but someone has to look at the overall picture. Agility now is HUGE compared to when Midi was introduced, at that time you could still find 4 ring shows that catered for everyone, so now we are faced with different problems.

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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Pam Ellwood on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 5:34 pm

Well said Jo.

at that point have segregated shows, with small and medium in one place, standard in another and large somewhere else entirely


Or dogs of different grades at different shows. I bet some people think you're exaggerating but segregation already happens of course. And then what about the people who have dogs of different classifications?

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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 5:42 pm

..so the issue is really just negotiating something that will work.

The impression I was getting is that some people really are dead set against this. so no one is against this as such - just against the extra height suggestion as it now stands...

So it agreed that there is a group of dogs who will benefit from somethng changing and so something should be done to resolve this - but it is just the what and how that needs working on...?
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Jo Sermon on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 5:52 pm

Jan Stubbs wrote:..so the issue is really just negotiating something that will work.

The impression I was getting is that some people really are dead set against this. so no one is against this as such - just against the extra height suggestion as it now stands...


I obviously can't speak for everyone, just the people that I've spoken to in person and on the net.

So it agreed that there is a group of dogs who will benefit from somethng changing and so something should be done to resolve this - but it is just the what and how that needs working on...?


I'd agree that there's a group of people who would like to jump their dogs lower. :winking: and yes if there are enough of them and we can accomodate them then we should.

I would HATE to be an ALC rep right now!

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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Pam Ellwood on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 5:55 pm

Jan Stubbs wrote:So it agreed that there is a group of dogs who will benefit from somethng changing ?


Yes - and that group is the big heavy dogs that the 4th Heighters/ Agility - for- allers are content to ignore.

AFAIC the jury is out on whether there are sufficient smaller Large dogs that would truly benefit to constitute a group that needs a change as opposed to those that have handlers who imagine they would be safer/more competitive or whatever over a lower height.
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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Jo Sermon on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 6:11 pm

Pam Ellwood wrote:[

Yes - and that group is the big heavy dogs that the 4th Heighters/ Agility - for- allers are content to ignore.


I agree. Completely. More and more I'm liking the idea of reinstating the variable and seeing how it pans out. The large heavy dogs would have a choice then and those who want to jump lower will be catered for. Show secs have the flexibility that the huge differences in show entries up and down the country require. I think that getting out there, staffing rings, getting sponsors for classes is a lot different to pressing a button on a survey. The only way we'll find out how much real support lower jumps have is by scheduling the classes I think.

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Re: 4th height again!

Postby Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 6:12 pm

I would HATE to be an ALC rep right now!

:D :D :D :D

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