It is currently Mon 20 Nov, 2017 9:39 am

Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

For a wide range of agility issues
Forum information
This is a public area of the board, for agility topics of general interest. Click on the Board Index link to see the full list of sections available to post in.

Please use the various Shows sections further down the board for questions about specific agility shows. If you are searching for clubs in particular areas, or trying to contact someone, your query should be posted in the Members Only section.

Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Chris Garrett on Tue 04 Dec, 2012 8:59 pm

Crossposted for anyone interested:

A group of dedicated 4th height supporters have brought together details, thoughts and research about the 4th height discussion item and why it should in our opinion be brought into Kennel Club Agility. The information pack contains a range of quotes, answers to queries and ideas to think about, its aim is to give you all a taste of why we think the discussion it
em should move forward into a proposal and the Kennel Club should think very seriously about this and bring it into KC Agility in the future.
We know that this isn't the full story; this isn't about giving you both sides, it is about putting forward our point of view.
To receive the information pack please email: fourth_height@yahoo.co.uk
Chris
Robbie, Inka, Lace, Bee and Look
User avatar
Chris Garrett
 
Posts: 610
Joined: Sun 23 Mar, 2008 8:01 pm
Location: Royal Berkshire

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Jules Vickerman on Wed 05 Dec, 2012 10:49 am

Ta Chris, got mine, made interesting bedtime reading and so nice to read something thought provoking rather than tedious threads of slanging matches over and over and over again :flowers:
Jules, two girlies and a bloke x
User avatar
Jules Vickerman
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat 22 Mar, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Huddersfield, Up North

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Pam Ellwood on Wed 05 Dec, 2012 12:44 pm

Chris Garrett wrote:The information pack contains a range of quotes


From people who actually know what they are talking about as far as KC agility in the UK is concerned?

Or from high profile overseas personalities?
Pam Ellwood
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: Mon 24 Mar, 2008 8:13 pm

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Jules Vickerman on Wed 05 Dec, 2012 1:01 pm

Pam Ellwood wrote:
Chris Garrett wrote:The information pack contains a range of quotes


From people who actually know what they are talking about as far as KC agility in the UK is concerned?

Or from high profile overseas personalities?


Why not get one and see :flowers:
Jules, two girlies and a bloke x
User avatar
Jules Vickerman
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat 22 Mar, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Huddersfield, Up North

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Pam Ellwood on Wed 05 Dec, 2012 1:50 pm

Jules Vickerman wrote:
Pam Ellwood wrote:
Chris Garrett wrote:The information pack contains a range of quotes


From people who actually know what they are talking about as far as KC agility in the UK is concerned?

Or from high profile overseas personalities?


Why not get one and see :flowers:


Is there any evidence in it that hasn't been presented as fact before?

I think I must have read every shade of personal opinion already.

Just give me the facts ma'am. (Showing my age now.)

Pam
Pam Ellwood
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: Mon 24 Mar, 2008 8:13 pm

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Jules Vickerman on Wed 05 Dec, 2012 2:22 pm

:yes: oh go on, you know you want to :wave:
Jules, two girlies and a bloke x
User avatar
Jules Vickerman
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat 22 Mar, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Huddersfield, Up North

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Pam Ellwood on Wed 05 Dec, 2012 9:06 pm

Jules Vickerman wrote::yes: oh go on, you know you want to :wave:


Well I might once I've got through sorting out end of year awards for our members which involves round about 60 trophies to order, 20 ish perpetuals to get engraved, 18 leads to order for those dogs that have won out of at least 1 grade.

The last thing I need is to add to that total.
Pam Ellwood
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: Mon 24 Mar, 2008 8:13 pm

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Pam Ellwood on Wed 05 Dec, 2012 9:22 pm

Just 1 question - is this a tree destroying version or email?

If email why can't it be made available on line without having to ask for it?
Pam Ellwood
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: Mon 24 Mar, 2008 8:13 pm

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Pam Ellwood on Wed 05 Dec, 2012 9:39 pm

No need to reply, I've had a quick scan.

Nothing new there and some very selective extracts from supposedly reputable sources.

And one study of all of 11 dogs!

Plenty of personal opinion, very little substance.
Pam Ellwood
 
Posts: 3427
Joined: Mon 24 Mar, 2008 8:13 pm

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Jules Vickerman on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 7:24 am

Well thanks for at least looking Pam, I thought there was some good stuff in there?

What specifically are your queries then? Is it more how would shows actually work given the extra classes? Or is it that you just don't agree with the 4th height? :flowers:

PS they aren't selected extracts, the quotes were specifically done for the 4th height supporters :snoopy:
Jules, two girlies and a bloke x
User avatar
Jules Vickerman
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat 22 Mar, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Huddersfield, Up North

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 10:25 am

I will read it.

But so far I was for the 4th height because I believed it was wanted and would make agility nicer nd more comfortable for some dogs and bring a few more into agility who were a fractions too tall for Medium and not suitable for them to jump in large.

So far it is the arguments for the 4th height which have swung me far more towards wondering why the M was set so low...

"The likelihood of Medium becoming another “collie-dominated” class if the Medium is raisedprobably increases, which is why the discussion concerns the introduction of a 4 height"

This is where it all falls flat for me. Because what on Earth is this about...???? This is not a 'reason' fior a 4th height - nor is it a reason to justify the M height. It is nonsense. imo

the arguments both for and against the 4th height are riddled with nonsense. imo And it is the twisting and turning of what really are opinions into 'fact' that is just baffling.

This is a simple issue...it is about how high dogs jump over a bit of plastic tubing. For standard owners who - for whatever reason - want their dogs to jump a height proportionally closer to their own height.

If the ideal height for the welfare of dogs is 3" then there needs to be a new height also at 11" and at 23". Which is not going to happen.


if it is about proportional fairness then it needs to be set at 21.5"

If it is about height/weight ratio...then maybe there needs to be a 22" height available to any large dog who wants to opt into it.

If it is about helping the max amount of dogs then the flexible height option wants introducing or bringing back in and actually needs to be available at shows for handlers to actually be able to use. However it works...

imo the issue with the proporal is why such a tight proposal and why not look at other options?
Last edited by Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Jan Stubbs
 
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 9:43 am
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Jules Vickerman on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 10:34 am

It's not a proposal Jan it's a discussion, so, if you wanted you could email your rep(s) with your ideas on alternatives if you couldn't get to the meeting :flowers:
Jules, two girlies and a bloke x
User avatar
Jules Vickerman
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat 22 Mar, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Huddersfield, Up North

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 10:39 am

Sorry yes I know it is a disgussion... but what we are disgussing has been very clearly defined. And this is possibly why it is creating all this confusion/friction.... imo

...as well as the how will it work.

But I am for a change..imo the 9" gap is crazy. My opinion is that it would be really great idea to bring in a change.

The 4th height group have spent yonks on working towards a solution to this simple issue they should have been looking into all the alternative options...surely...so why have they rejected all the possible alternatives?
Last edited by Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Jan Stubbs
 
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 9:43 am
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Jules Vickerman on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 10:45 am

Well, you could discuss whether it was an optional height or fixed maybe? :snoopy:
Jules, two girlies and a bloke x
User avatar
Jules Vickerman
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Sat 22 Mar, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Huddersfield, Up North

Re: Information Pack on 4th Height Discussion Item

Postby Jan Stubbs on Thu 06 Dec, 2012 10:57 am

If we can vote for anything - to keep it very very simple but interesting - I think I will vote for the M to increase to 18" and bring in an optional 22" height class but for any large dog. :flowers:


....and a vet check before dogs can compete. :)
User avatar
Jan Stubbs
 
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue 25 Mar, 2008 9:43 am
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire

Next

Return to The Agility Forum



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests