Tail Docking and Competitions

[Anna Brown]

Hello everyone,

This is a question for anyone with a dog with a tail that was docked after April 2007. Are you worried at all that you cannot compete at a show where the public pay for entry (like a show that is held alongside an agricultural show or a game fair)? Apparently it's the law!

I am looking into getting a working cocker spaniel pup and am just a bit concerned that there are going to be some shows we won't be able to compete at because of the above. Are others taking it seriously or do you think it's just one of those silly laws that most people will ignore?

Do you think it will actually be enforced and are there any loopholes?
Bit bamboozled.
Anna

[Teresa Moore]

You could always get a working cocker spaniel with a full waggy tail...

[Anna Brown]

I would love to! But this particular pup is being bred by a friend, I really like the bitch - most of the litter will go to full on working homes so they will be docked, the only other thing I could do would be to choose one before it's docked (less than 5 days old) but I'm not brave enough to do that as I won't know its personality.

[Teresa Moore]

personally I'd go elsewhere then cos I don't feel there is any justification for docking... but thats just my opinion...

going back to your OP I would like to think the law will be upheld and that docked dogs born after the magic date will not be allowed to compete where the public pay entrance.

[Anne Gleeson]

I think you'll also find that they have to be well younger than 5 days!!
But not getting into any debates.

[Anna Brown]

I think you'll also find that they have to be well younger than 5 days!!
But not getting into any debates.

I was not suggesting that they are docked at 5 days old I said I would have to choose the pup when it was under a week old!

Lets put the worms back into the can here.

My post was not intended to start any debate about whether or not docking is right or wrong but to find out what people with docked dogs under 2 years old think about the ban.

[Jill Spurr]

Don't know if it helps with your dilemma, but all of the puppies we have had have been chosen well under a week old, with absolutely no regrets or disappointment. Personalities have been spot on every time.

[Emma Conlisk]

I believe the rule will be upheld and have seen the odd reminder for people hoping to compete at cetain shows where the public will pay.

You couldn't compete at Olympia, Discover Dogs or Crufts should you qualify. Nor at shows held as part of county shows - East of England (RVA) / Mid Downs Autumn for example. I am sure there are also others.

It's your deision as to whether or not you mind. I agree one good solution would be to choose you puppy sooner rather than later.

[Donna Lewis]

Think I have heard some different info recently linked to DEFRA and docking worth talking to someone about it I am sure there are loop holes around it at the moment. Ask some docked working cocker owners who compete in agility, Niki Crawley who has Gemlani dogs WCS she knows quite a bit.

[Ann Miller]

My young cocker was bought primarily to work in the field and she is docked. A pity that she may never be able to go to Olympia etc but it doesn't bother me. Getting the dog I wanted was more important than having the hope she would qualify for one of these events. I have bought her in full knowledge and therefore it won't be a future disappointment. I'll just have to settle for Agility Champion!

As for the country fairs etc it's not as if the majority of competitions are at these kind of events but for the few that I attend that are she can come along and enter the gun dog scurries instead.

I don't believe that the laws were written to stop dogs competing at agility. In my opinion they were written to stop dogs being shown at the most important of the breed shows and agility has simply been accidentally caught by it. Therefore there may well be loopholes and may be the law will eventually be clarified. However until then even if the show management don't really care to police this there are enough agility competitors with strong opinions about docking who will look for the law as written to be upheld. Therefore I won't be trying to compete with my youngster at these events.

I just see her tail being docked as another factor to take into account when choosing shows along with whether or not the shows have appropriate classes for her to enter.

Ann

[Aljeana Baddley]

I think there are plenty of loop holes in the docking of dog that are being used, you only have to look at the amount of working cocker litters that are being advertised around Shropshire and Cheshire for sale as "pets"or working homes that state they are legally docked.

The docking ban has stopped offically show lines from being docked yet the loop whole is still there for working lines to get whole litters docked and then for part of those litters to enter the pet market.

And this is where people who then buy a working line find themselves in a situation where they do become affected by the docking rules as far as showing a docked dog where paying public are.

My view on this is you should be getting the dog for the right reasons they may not make it as an agility dog and need to fit into your home life first, if you find the right line then ask for the tail not to be docked the problem here is that you may find the breeder may not want to single out a puppy until they have seen the whole litter run on for a while.

Personally I would go for a line that leaves the tail un docked unless you are going to field work it, If and when I go for another cocker mine will have a tail I will have no choice as mine will be from show line.

Best of luck

Aljeana

[Chris Kurzfeld]

most of the litter will go to full on working homes so they will be docked,

Correct me if I am wrong but i was recently told that only the pups guarenteed to go to working homes (and i think you need certificates to proove it) could be docked - vets docking without this proof can be penalised for breaking the law. I would have thought that meant that as yours isn't going to be worked then it cannot be docked. Personally I would stay with the waggy tail as someone else suggested - so much better and natural.

This came up recently when someone put an advert for homes for docked JRT pups in our local paer - the people in question (and their vet) were prosecuted as the pups had been docked before any homes had been decided - therefore both the owner and the vet had no knowledge of wether the pups were going to be worked or not.

[Chris Foulds]

I've got a 1yr old docked working cocker, she is not anywhere close to being able to compete but when she does I will just have to avoid these shows unless someone gets sensible and realises the different between a show dog and a working dog that happens to also compete at Agility.

In showing it means working cockers, with docked tails who actually work can not be shown in the "Gamekeepers" class (Specifically for working dogs) at Crufts - which was the the original purpose of Crufts and all dog shows.....

[Aljeana Baddley]

As far as I am aware Chris I have not heard of any prosecutions and as I have already said the pups are advertised as work or pet and clearly states from FT lines and champions sometimes even states the stud dog which is a very well known dog.

Aljeana

[Julie Lyon]

Docking of tails has to take place within 24hrs of the birth and by a registered vet, listed with the docked breed council. The breeder of the pups has also to be a member of the docked breed council. This was the situation prior to the docking ban.